Cult Research - Branch Davidians
Waco: American Apocalypse - Netflix Limited Series from 2023
Episode 1 Notes:
Brief overview
1993 - US Government served a search warrant for machine guns against religious leader David Koresh
Became the largest gunfight on American soil since the Civil War
Was a 51 day standoff that became an international headline
There were 85 members in the cult at the time of the siege. 46 of them were kids.
The compound was a big building in a field with one road in and out. “It’s imposing. It was a very large structure in the middle of a very large nothing.”
Description of the cult from cult members
“It was a bunch of people who truly loved each other”
“it was a very caring environment”
“Someone here is teaching me about the bible”
“David was our Christ giving us the truths from God”
“I can’t worship God the way I want to, they’re taking that away from me. That is an American right”
“We were living and doing God’s will”
“By being there, we were part of God’s plan. I could see this was history happening right in front of me”
“I couldn’t find God the way my mother told me to when I was young. Then I met David, I packed the kids up, and we moved to Texas. We were going to start over and live for God.”
The daughter of this woman was born and raised on the compound. David Koresh was her uncle. “It was like having 100 moms”
Kids were taught how to clean, load, and shoot guns.
They were woken up by a bell when breakfast was ready every morning
They had an expectation to stay out of the way
Compound was called Mt. Carmel Center
Starts with Koresh reading the bible to a group. “Some people find it amazing that I know all 150 psalms in here”
He convinced his followers that he was Christ. They were going to follow him into war to rebuild the new world. He told them to expect the apocalypse on their compound, and that the government would come to them.
He told them they would die in this battle, and God would bring them back to get vengeance and lead the creation of the new world.
This was why they felt they needed so much firepower.
They were making grenades, changing semi automatic guns to fully automatic.
A grenade hull fell out of a fedex package being delivered to the compound and the driver alerted the ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms Bureau. 80% of the work they do pertains to firearms.) The ATF had reason to believe that the cult had machine guns.
They got a search warrant to arrest cult members. ATF planned to surprise the group, arrest Koresh, and seize the weapons in the compound.
February 28, 1993 was day 1
The cops set up down the road to the compound
One of the reporters got lost and asked a mailman for directions to Mt. Carmel. The mailman was a cult member. He drove back to Mt. Carmel and warned the cult. Koresh’s response was “the time has come”
The ATF lost the element of surprise and decided to move forward with the plan quickly. Bad idea.
Helicopters were watching the compound in preparation for the raid.
Robert Rodriguez was an undercover agent in the cult. He got out when the warning came to the cult.
The cult members were arming themselves quickly, Koresh said he wanted to try to talk to the ATF first. He came out and told them to get off the property. The police announced “search warrant” and he went back inside and shut the door. “All hell breaks loose. Gunfire like you wouldn’t believe.” The compound did have machine guns, the warrant was valid.
The ATF say they weren’t the first to shoot.
Agents ran towards the compound with ladders. Cult members were shooting through the walls, the ATF agents were able to break windows and get inside but then were shot inside the building. 4 ATF agents were killed. A news reporter who was present called for ambulances, every ambulance in the county was brought to the location.
Quotes from cult members about their thoughts during the attack:
“I was 9. One of David Koresh’s wives came running into the room. She had a gun. She went to the curtain and opened the window and she flew back right beside me. I can’t forget her scream.” / “the worst part of it was just hearing when people were getting shot. You can hear the tone and the change in their voice.” / “I didn’t know what was going on… I just knew people were scared and people were getting hurt.” / “the screaming I heard was my grandfather crawling down the hallway. He was begging for somebody to kill him and they did.” / “They said it was going to be easy because we were all just going to be crouched in the corner holding our bibles”
“I did not want my children killed.”
“50 armed men with black suits jumping out of vehicles and rushing our building”
“I was in the tornado shelter because I didn’t want to get shot. Period.”
“My perception of the ATF when they left was that they couldn’t believe they had lost”
Parents were telling their kids - “Remember what I said. ‘God sits on the throne’.” Their concern wasn’t only their kids’ lives, it was their kids’ eternal souls and living for God.
“Coming out meant giving up everything we believed in.”
“They came in an attacked us, we defended our position.”
You could have dropped a bomb on us, we would not have come out. That’s commitment to your God.”
Someone inside the compound (Wayne) called 911 to ask that the police stop the attack because there were women and children inside.
Koresh ended up talking to the police on the phone. He agreed to allow officers to retrieve an injured agent, neither side sure the ceasefire would be honored. “Negotiating a ceasefire was the only way out”
The raid ended and the ATF brought their wounded to get medical attention.
The FBI was contacted to come in and assist now that 4 ATF members had been killed, they were in charge of investigating the deaths. The only reason it started with the ATF is because the compound had so many guns, the FBI would have been the bureau to handle the cult initially if not for the weapons.
The FBI’s Hostage Refuge Team is called in. The main concern was getting the kids out.
The FBI asked what Koresh really wanted. The answer was that he wanted media attention. He wanted the world to know that he was the second coming of Christ. Every time the FBI gave him airtime for his message to be played on the local radio station he would release 2 kids. (2 at a time - Noah’s Ark)
The cult members believed, though, that the police / ATF / FBI were the devil. He’d been telling them this whole time to expect that the apocalypse would come to their door in the form of an armed forces attack. So the parents in the compound were giving him pushback, they didn’t want their kids to be released through these negotiations. This was the apocalypse they’d be preparing for.
Sunday and Monday they got 12 kids out, Tuesday they got 6 kids out & 2 adults.
Koresh agreed to come out with all of his followers if the media would broadcast a 58 minute recording on the Christian Broadcasting Network, a national outlet.
Koresh would come out first, then the kids, then the men, and Steve Shneider (the second in command) was to come last.
“At any moment it could have turned to another shoot out or a mass suicide”
David assembled his cult members in the hallway to say goodbye. There were ambulances waiting outside for the injured. Steve got on the phone and said that David had received a sign from God that he has to wait.
Observations:
So far this is all about the standoff. It’s really interesting but not something I plan to do with my story.
I need to know things like:
What did they believe
What rules did they live by
What was day-to-day life like
How did they recruit people
What were the things the cult members didn’t like about the cult
See some insight of the children’s perspective and the parents’ perspective. I didn’t realize I needed to learn that stuff too - how a parent would justify raising their child in a cult.
Episode 2 Notes:
FBI’s goal was to resolve the incident without further bloodshed
20 children, 47 women, and 43 men are still inside
Koresh explains his belief that he’s Christ by saying that 2000 years ago no one believed Christ was the son of God until he died. Implies he’s prepared to die to prove he’s the second coming of Christ.
March 2, 1993 - Day 3
The cult’s plan was to commit suicide if the FBI entered the building. They had grenades ready for this scenario.
The FBI needed to contain the crime scene and protect the people who come out. They wanted to take the barn behind the compound and set up surveillance.
The cult members had night vision (these are my nooodddsss) and could see the FBI setting up their perimeter.
The Hostage Rescue team and the negotiators were at odds - the negotiators wanted to back down and build relationships with the people inside to resolve this. The Rescue team wanted to go in guns blazing and kill Koresh because he was a criminal keeping people hostage.
March 3, 1993 - Day 4
The rescue team and negotiating team started to separate. David Koresh did seem to be building a relationship with the negotiating team
David saw similarities between himself and Christ
He was 33
He had a wound on his side like Christ at the time of his death
He believed he was dying for his people and his God.
The negotiating team asked about Koresh’s wounds. He was shot twice. They used this angle to tell him he needed medical attention and should leave the compound. He wouldn’t leave.
The media was ALL OVER this so it was difficult for the police to navigate because if ANYthing goes wrong the media would scrutinize everything they did. (and, they did lol. But also, this wasn’t handled well so the scrutiny was valid)
March 4, 1993 - Day 5
A cult member’s mother came to town to try to talk to her son. The FBI was told they didn’t have protocol for that so they wouldn’t allow her to speak to him. She went to the media to try to communicate with her son.
The FBI wasn’t allowing the cult to speak to anyone other than the feds during negotiations because they wanted all the resolution to be dependent on them - Koresh needed to see that working with the FBI was the only way to resolve this. They also had concerns that people in the cult would share their last will and testaments, which would allow them to end the standoff in a violent manner.
The FBI understood Koresh to be a con man. But some of them do think that Koresh truly believed that he was the second coming of Christ.
New knowledge of the cult from talking to the cult members’ families
Koresh talked to family members early on in the cult to reassure them of their loved one’s decision to join him. He told them he was a prophet and the second coming of Christ. Family members were concerned but not alarmed.
Koresh’s first girlfriend shared information on who he was when he was younger.
In 1979 (around the age of 18/19) he had a nervous breakdown, was under a lot of spiritual stress. Started having visual and auditory hallucinations. He believed he was talking to God during these hallucinations.
His father was a convict and thief.
Koresh was a victim of sexual abuse from older boys
He dropped out of middle school and started to seek people who would help him understand the bible. He found the Branch Davidians in Waco. They said he wasn’t very attractive or bright, he was a carpenter. (All of this would have happened before his breakdown in 79)
He seduced the woman who was running the group (she was like 40 years his senior). When she died Koresh and her son fought over who would take over leadership of the group.
There was a violent incident involving guns, Koresh was arrested and charged with attempted murder. He was acquitted. David then took over the group.
A Current Affair made a documentary of him years earlier
His name was Vernon but he preferred David Koresh. He married a girl named Rachel when she was 14, she was the daughter of a longtime member of the Branch Davidians
Knowledge from a cult member
A New Light concept - he said he was supposed to have more than one wife. At first it was single girls, then it evolved into him annulling marriages of all people in the cult and taking their wives.
Some people left as a result. One girl’s mom left and she wasn’t allowed to be with her dad, play with him, eat with him. David Koresh became her mom and dad.
He would spank the kids with a paddle, waiting until they weren’t tense before he hit them.
Koresh was sleeping with underage girls. They would “giggle and laugh at being one of his wives one day. Having his kids, how it would be such an honor.” They were like 10-13 years old.
Had to pause the documentary for a minute here because one of the grown women who is recounting her experience is saying some WILD shit. She said. Direct quote. “People think that a man having sex with a bunch of underage girls is a crime. And in conventional wisdom that could probably be very well true. However, these weren’t underaged girls, because you come of age at 12. So, all of these girls were adults in our… belief system.” God I hope she sees how fucking awful that is. I can’t tell from this interview if she realizes how wrong she was back then. She was in her early 20’s when she joined the cult and all this was happening.
March 5, 1993 - Day 6
FBI’s first goal is to get the kids out of harm’s way
The FBI agents were really scary for the kids - they were in body armor and carrying guns. The kids were brought to an armored vehicle to get them to safety but that was scary for them too. The kids were either too young to understand what was happening or they believed they were leaving their chance at paradise with their families behind.
The agents went through all their stuff because they suspected the adults would have sent the kids out with bombs or grenades.
“God has many promises. Always remember that. You be a good girl and ask for all the good things. Don’t forget what you know.” One father’s last words to his daughter after she was released from the compound and he was still inside.
March 6, 1993 - Day 7
The cult started to aim at the police outside
The HRT told the negotiators to talk to the cult and have the weapons put away.
The cult denied it but the gun was brought back inside.
Then there was conflict between the rescue team and the negotiators because the rescue team is angry that now they don’t know where the .50 caliber barrett rifle went. The miscommunications between these two teams continued.
March 8, 1993 - Day 8
David Koresh said they were ready for war and they were giving the police one last opportunity to save themselves before they were “blown away”. The rescue team responded by bringing in the largest armored vehicles the US Army has, Abrams tanks. This escalated the conflict.
David: “What’s God going to do to our enemies?” Little girl:“Destroy them” - she looks like 6 years old.
The kids who were taken out were brought to a methodist children’s home and recordings of the children were sent to the parents in the compound to try to encourage the parents to come out and be with their kids.
One of the parents, Kathy Schroeder, was worried about her son being unhappy (the same chick who defended Koresh sleeping with kids). The negotiator tried to go with the angle that he needs his mom, that she was responsible for him. She said seeing her son unhappy made it more difficult for her to “do God’s will”. She came out to be with her son. She really did not want to come out.
The Mighty Men
Koresh’s army in the compound. Kathy Schroeder was one of them.
March 12, 1993 - Day 13
An unidentified adult female came out of the compound - that was Kathy. They learned about the conditions inside from her.
She was brought to jail and taken away from her son. (duh lol.)
She was charged with the death of the ATF agents.
This made the negotiators’ jobs harder because now people inside the compound won’t want to come out. This also made the negotiators look like liars.
Quotes from members about their experience in the cult:
“every single one of us was married to David because he was our Christ giving us truths from God”
“Bible studies would take all night long. Women would stay late hoping to be picked to be the person he slept with that night.”
“The bed took up 4/5ths of the room. It was special.”
“I’m going to be - for the first time - with God alone. Through David”
“The whole time we were having sex it was a bible study. He did it for me, not for himself. He did it to give me that one little bit of tenderness with my God.”
“We live for one thing and that’s the betterment of tomorrow’s world. And that’s where our children come in at. Our children know how to respect, be mindful, know how to do right because they see it here.”
“David felt that letting some kids out would go a long way in establishing trust.”
“I’m not a person. I’m God’s tool.”
Observations:
I would guess the explosion was the cult members committing suicide. That was their plan before, when they expected the police to come in. I don’t know why they would burn down the building, but there’s audio of Koresh saying they needed more fuel and hay, it was definitely them. Maybe destroying evidence of things they’d done there?
His breakdown at the age of 18/19 sounds like ocd fixation on religion. Also, he seems to have had clear rules for himself, his family, and how to adhere to his faith. Sounds like this could have started in undiagnosed / misunderstood OCD and spiralled out of control. The hallucinations though, that’s not OCD lol.
The chick who, in 2023, defended Koresh sexually abusing those kids - she cried when she was talking about this, but she sounded sincere in her conviction that Koresh did nothing wrong. There was clearly cognitive dissonance happening - she could hear what she was saying as we hear it, and she knew it was fucked up, but that didn’t change that she did feel Koresh was acting according to God’s will when he abused those kids. She knows in society that would be abuse, but she couldn’t apply those same rules to Koresh.
Episode 3 Notes:
One of the HRT snipers had the chance to kill David Koresh out of orders. He felt he should have done it. He says he would have gone to jail but he thinks it would have saved lives.
March 11, 1993 - Day 12
Koresh’s mother brought a lawyer to the scene to represent David. His mother said David “was sincere in his beliefs". The lawyer spoke to him and said David sounded reasonable and seemed to have a good understanding of what was happening. He was going to try to get David to come out and agree to settle this in court.
March 21, 1993 - Day 22
Two dozen or more people were expected to come out. It seems like negotiations are working.
The HRT runs the tank over Koresh’s antique Ford Ranchero without reason. The tactical team is clearly not under the control of the negotiating team so David has no reason to work with the negotiators anymore.
The FBI was spending over 1 million a day to deal with this so they had pressure to get this over with quickly, hence the escalation.
The HRT started to use sound effects, songs on repeat, animals screeching on speakers outside the compound nonstop for days on end. This was working against the negotiators.
March 29, 1993 - Day 30
Koresh’s lawyer wanted to get into the compound to have a private conversation with him. No one in law enforcement thought this was a good idea. The cult members were happy that someone who was trying to understand them would be coming in to talk to them.
His account
“The first thing I noticed was the smell. Sewage and garlic. They were treating the wounds with holistic methods.”
“I told David I wanted to get him in court. David said he had been told by God that it was his mission to write his interpretation of the book of revelations.”
He was able to leave the compound after meeting with David
People started to come visit to watch the compound, including Tim McVeigh
April 14, 1993 - Day 46
David’s lawyer announces to the public that David’s plan is to finish writing his thesis and then he would come out with everyone still inside and come to court.
The FBI didn’t believe this, they thought it was another stalling tactic.
They didn’t believe negotiations were going to work anymore.
Solution was to throw tear gas into the compound
New knowledge of cult:
Affidavits of child abuse from previous cult members. This sparked the decision to escalate the conflict to end the standoff.
April 19, 1993 - Day 51
The FBI tells the cult that they are going to place tear gas in the building but that this is not an assault and they will not be entering the building. They do not want the cult members to fire their weapons. They were told to come out of the compound with their hands in the air.
The HRT expected there to be a fight. The tanks started to destroy the building.
Many of the Davidians were hiding in a bunker in the building, the FBI wanted to tear down the structure to get tear gas into the bunker.
The cult shot at the cops, the police say they did not return fire.
One of the snipers sees flames through his scope. There’s a second fire, and then a third. The fire was started by the Davidians. The surviving cult members disagree and say that they did not start the fire. Then there was an explosion.
The cult members were afraid to leave because they thought they’d get shot.
They also felt there was no safe way to leave because the building had been destroyed by the tanks.
Three cult members who got out were arrested on the spot.
Someone stayed behind in the compound with a sniper rifle and was still trying to shoot the police.
Fire trucks were not allowed to go in because it was too dangerous
The people who were able to get out would not say where the children were
One of the kids watched the fire from the news at the children’s home where she was being cared for and she overheard adults say “those parents must not have loved their kids” and that upset her because she said she knew her dad loved her, that they loved all of them.
9 people survived
April 20, 1993
Clinton addressed the nation
4 federal agents, 82 Branch Davidians, including 28 children, died
April 19, 1995
Oklahoma City Bombing
Timothy McVeigh wanted to take revenge for what had happened in Waco
Quotes on final thoughts of the tragedy:
“The people who died at Mt Carmel were martyrs. They literally died for their faith. They died for God.”
“Watching everyone I know die is painful but acceptable, because they did it for a reason. They did it in praise of their God.”
“I feel guilty being alive. All the pain that they went through, I can’t imagine it but I think about it every day. My whole family was murdered. And they’re all gone. And I feel alone.”
Observations:
This was a clusterfuck of military / government miscommunication. Seems like the negotiating team had a decent handle on the situation and were making progress but the HRT undermined their efforts which was what led to the conflict, fire, explosion, and deaths.
The prevailing attitude of survivors of the cult is that their friends and family members died for God and were being faithful servants in staying with David. They don’t seem to have changed their views of the cult since this event. They also still defend the cult - one person said they didn’t start the fire / didn’t cause the explosion when there’s audio recording of David saying they needed more fuel.
